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A Letter from the CEO

    • Moderator
    • 3582 posts
    February 22, 2019 11:38 AM EST

    Hello Everyone,

    As you may have heard, we’ve recently released SocialEngine Unite beta. We’ve received great feedback from SE Cloud and SE PHP clients and we truly appreciate the time you’ve all taken to express your views and concerns. We would like to take this time to address the most frequently asked questions to alleviate any concerns about a path forward or our company.

    Has SocialEngine been Sold?
    Absolutely not. SocialEngine is still owned and operated by Webligo Developments. There are no plans to sell SocialEngine. Our roadmap for the SocialEngine brand with Unite at the forefront has us very excited for years to come.

    If I Own a SocialEngine PHP License, will I be Required to Migrate to Unite?
    No. SocialEngine Unite will be a choice and not a requirement.

    Will SocialEngine PHP Sites Stop Working?
    No. When SocialEngine Unite is launched for self hosted clients, there will be no change or impact on current SocialEngine PHP websites or licenses.

    Can I Upgrade from SocialEngine PHP to SocialEngine Unite?
    Yes! We’ll provide a free importer for SocialEngine PHP. This will allow those that want to upgrade to the SocialEngine Unite platform that option.

    What if I have Third Party Plugins?
    SocialEngine Unite has an API that experts can use to port their plugins or themes over to Unite should they choose. You could also use a hybrid of SE PHP and SocialEngine Unite should you choose.

    Will I have to use the SaaS Version of SocialEngine Unite?
    In the future we are planning to provide a downloadable version for those that want to self host.

    If I Self-Host will I have to Pay any Monthly Fees?
    Our goal is to make SocialEngine Unite affordable for everyone while balancing our company’s need for a more up to date business model. In order to provide continual updates and features, we will charge low monthly fees for any SocialEngine apps that you choose to use. Our current app fees range from $0-$4 monthly.

    Do I have to Purchase Apps from SocialEngine?
    No. Apps are optional and can be purchased from SocialEngine or from experts who sell them. You can also use SocialEngine Unite with no apps at all.

    Will SocialEngine PHP Still be Sold and Maintained?
    SocialEngine PHP has been our flagship product for several years. However, website trends and advances in technology required us to reassess the viability of staying with PHP and the Zend framework. We’ve determined that the best path forward is to retire SE PHP at the end of 2020. SocialEngine PHP will continue to be sold until SocialEngine Unite is released as a stable version for both SaaS and self hosted clients with a free import tool. We will continue to support and maintain SE PHP until it reaches EOL and is retired.

    What Can I Expect if I Buy or Own a SocialEngine PHP?
    If you own a SocialEngine PHP license or purchase one now, you will have access to Unite with some special credits. These credits will only be available to those that purchase before we launch the stable version.

    What is the Path for SocialEngine Cloud Clients?
    SocialEngine Unite will have an importer for SocialEngine Cloud. As soon as the importer is ready, you can start the migration process. We anticipate closing the SociaEngine Cloud platform by fourth quarter 2019 which should give plenty of time for migration of all SocialEngine Cloud sites.

    I’m a third Party Expert, do I have to Know Node.js or React?
    When dealing with the API you do not need to know Node.js. It can be developed and connected with any language. An example is our main website which has certain pages using PHP that we haven’t migrated over yet. For those pages we use the Unite API using PHP.

    For developing apps, learning React is not required. You can use Vanilla Javascript if you want. We have support to connect to sources external from the core. This means that apps can technically be developed in any backend language.

    We personally use React as it suits the nature of how a Social Network works where content needs to be split up into segments and those segments cannot harm another segment. In addition, since a social network is very dynamic in nature we wanted something that could update content dynamically and with ease. This is the main focus of React – to listen for any state changes and if a state has changed only that specific segment is updated and nothing else.

    We understand the release of SocialEngine Unite impacts current clientele and experts and are doing our best to provide a path forward. Our next goals are:

    • Release SocialEngine Unite SaaS stable with importer for SocialEngine Cloud sites.
    • Release SocialEngine Unite self hosted with importer for SocialEngine PHP sites.
    • Release app extensions for full featured blogs, forum, event, music, groups, pages, chat, video, and much more.
    • Release additional apps with even more great features for our users!
    • We’ve also got native mobile apps in our schedule!

    Thank you for your continued support and feedback. Please feel free to post your thoughts and feedback at our community as we are always interested to hear from you.

    With Great Appreciation,
    James Clark, CEO,  and the SocialEngine Team


    This post was edited by Donna at May 3, 2019 4:16 AM EDT
    • 211 posts
    February 22, 2019 3:14 PM EST

    Full Disclosure:

    Very disappointed with where we are left as a company and client with these changes.

    We have invested in over 8 grand in the last couple of years with support , plugins and licences.

    We spent the whole of last year just trying to get our designed site live with the SEPHP 3DP plugins and the 3DP support has been awful in every way imaginable ,

    specially with time differences, sloppy coding, untested rushed-to-market plugins & terrible time-difference  support.

     

    We "hoped" through the months, that if we kept plowing through the support tickets and buggy software issues,  we would be home free , the system would be stable and we could go go live.

    We now are ready to go live after 2 years , with an outdated platform and plugin system.

    That is ridiculous.

     

    1) SE PHP will end in EOL

    2) There is no specific timeline or path even if we wanted to self host.

    3)We are not interested in the Cloud or SAAS solution as we want to host and manage the services ourselves.

    - This is the primary reason we researched ,selected and invested in SEPHP over all the other SE platforms a couple of years back. It fit with our business goals of hosting and managing our own services.

    We have been spending about $400 bucks every month with AWS just for this development/staging platform for the last year with all our business plan based on hosting future clients, so that we can keep the prices low for subscription packages for our future clients.

    "Will I have to use the SaaS Version of SocialEngine Unite?
    In the future we are planning to provide a downloadable version for those that want to self host."

     

    Wish we were told that it would all move to Unite and we could then make the decision to stop purchasing plugins and licences.

    It would have at least stemmed the wanton expenses and previous time wasted on support of these buggy plugins.

     

    Now , until 3dps build the plugins/features ( about 160 of them) - we are basically stuck with an outdated site.

    This was'nt an over night decision and wish we knew, so we would have stopped bleeding money into soon-to-be-discontinued 3dp plugins and support.

    What a waste of time.

     

    Not one 3dp has reached out and spoken to us about this and what their path going forward is with the massive investments in ALL their plugins.


    We need to make decisions, and we are leaning to bail out of this eco culture.

    We feel we have been taken for granted and not included in the equation of choices made.

     

    It would take at least a year before 3dps build or port these plugins into apps , with additional expenses and write-offs of previous expenses- with no foreseeable timeline for self hosting. there seems to be no accountability towards clients.

     

    If we knew about these changes, we would have not wasted time and money and waited till the dust settled into the new system and then started working on our se project.

    Disappointed.

     

    Best ~

     

     

     


    This post was edited by playmusician at February 22, 2019 4:05 PM EST
    • Moderator
    • 3582 posts
    February 22, 2019 4:04 PM EST

    Hi and thank you for your input.

    Please remember that nothing is lost here. You can use a hybrid of both systems and tap into the power, speed and flexibility of Unite. Hosted on your own server. Even make your own apps for it if you want to. Unite allows you to develop in any programming language so you aren't stuck with just one. Using the hybrid method, you can do both systems and gradually move over to Unite later on.

    I bought plugins a few weeks ago knowing this was coming because I can take my site and use the Hybrid system. Make it super fast. Use the new tech. Still use the other plugins and have what I need for now.  Self hosted on my own BryZar hosting.

    So you can still do your plans and have some of the newest technology powering it. Still use what you have and port it over via the API. Once you are ready, migrate all of it into a full Unite system on your hosting. Or keep it hybrid as SEPHP won't stop working even when it is EOL. You can make your own apps too. Even distribute those, sell them, however you want. Unite isn't a closed system where only SE Unite apps will work. Anyone can make Unite apps in any programming language. This actually opens many more doors for you than you realize. Imagine the possibilities now. 

    You don't even have to be in a hurry to do any of that as SEPHP will not stop working. Like I said, even after EOL it will continue to work as our CEO also said in the blog post that I shared above.

    Hope this helps. 

    • 211 posts
    February 22, 2019 4:10 PM EST

    Thanks Donna for the reply,

    We cannot go live/forward on an out dated system which is going to be phased out.

    I wouldnt want to go live, take on 5000 paying subscribers and do a migration after that, it would be a nightmare and disservice to the subscribers.

    The migration itself with the track record of how 3dps past history with support works would be painful and be another year of staying awake late at night.

    Im sorry, if I show no faith in the 3dps cause I dont . I don;t have any faith in a smooth migration based on the previous years track record and history. They don't communicate to their clients or establish strong business relationships and communication.

     

    After being their "premium" client and paying premium dollars for support they dont even give us the time of day with skype (certain 3dps) or reach out and have a solid honest meaningful conversation and continuity about client needs. 

    After 2 years and hundreds of tickets, we just about got about our site working right, stable and the way it should work.

    This system will be phased out so theres no point taking it live with paying subscribers.

    Plus there is no decisive time line for when it self hosting will come to fruition, tested and become stable.

    Thats a risk , we cannot take and will be a disservice to our future clients.

     Regarding " Still use what you have and port it over via the API. "

    the 3Dps have no answers for us , - they have not even spoken to us r been forthright abut their plans

    -we don't have the budget to spend on developing these new "apps" with 3dps, as we dont have any subscribers or have gone live  yet.

     

    Its a catch 22, cause to fund / re-invest the porting to the new apps via 3dps - we would need to go live and accept subscribers payments. We shouldnt have to pay again for developing new apps - we already have spent that money on SEPHP plugin purchase, support and development.

     

    Would love to know the 3dp plans for porting , pricing and what they intend to do .

    So we can make a decision whether to proceed forward or look at other alternatives.

    Thanks

     


    This post was edited by playmusician at February 22, 2019 4:34 PM EST
  • February 22, 2019 4:36 PM EST

    My takeaway from this official announcement is:

    1. Love the upcoming apps idea. This has been very much needed for awhile and should satisfy newcomers and returning users alike once it's been built.

    2. I think the more in your face the change is to reluctant customers, no matter how hard you try to bring them in, they will refuse all the more. So keep in mind visualization can cure more than the change it took to get there. the bottom line for the majority of customers is the results from a live perspective.

    3. To me, unite isn't ready for prime time yet, so I think it should be a beta program for awhile still. It's got a huge promising potential. My only concern is with the pricing model you mentioned. Continuous payments for working apps helps developers, but not those who spend hundreds of dollars on live huge sites without having to force members to pay for something that's been free for years to keep up with it all. When you mention special credits for PHP customers, what does that mean?

    • 211 posts
    February 22, 2019 4:41 PM EST

    " 2. I think the more in your face the change is to reluctant customers, no matter how hard you try to bring them in, they will refuse all the more. So keep in mind visualization can cure more than the change it took to get there. the bottom line for the majority of customers is the results from a live perspective."

     

    Im all for the change and would love to have the new system in place for my site.I think everybody does, we are all nerds and tech people here- so we do understand the technology and changes as geeks.

    We are talking about development, continuity  and sustainence money here for a business platform/plan not a home recipe site. 

    With things vague on the hosting / 3dp apps side, it is totally normal to be concerned about how to proceed further, cause it involves money and expenses - as a business.

    Thanks ~

     

     

     


    This post was edited by playmusician at February 22, 2019 4:44 PM EST
  • TJ
    • 3 posts
    February 22, 2019 4:46 PM EST

    I feel your pain @playmusician, I'm in a similar boat where I have invested thousands of dollars in the platform and 3rd party plugins, but unlike you, I haven't had the time just yet to fully configure and integrate everything (so at least I haven't lost time in addition to the financial investment).

    Although I think it's great that SE are moving forward with a modern architecture and are investing in the future (which I applaud them, for), announcing a relatively short EOL window (given the investment many have in their sites) is the most painful part of this announcement IMHO.

    As I mentioned in the original announcement thread, I think the solution is one of the following:

    1. Extend that EOL/End of Support date further out, which should provide more of a runway for migration to the new platform (when 3rd parties hopefully rewrite their plugins).
    2. Open source SEPHP at the EOL date (my least favorite option if it means no one will pick up the mantle and maintain/extend it).
    3. Pass/sell SEPHP to an entity or entities that will continue its support and development (one of the large 3rd party devs make sense to me given their own investment their plugins represent - as long as there is contractual language that keeps the API and ecosystem open to other developers - perhaps a joint effort between multiple 3rd party devs?)

    I would image the reason we haven't heard anything from the 3rd party devs is this is likely new to them also, so perhaps when the dust settles and SE share info and code with them, we'll get an idea of their thoughts/plans.

    As for my plans, I guess I'm now forced into a holding pattern - which I'm not happy about. A purgatory of sorts.

    Until the 3rd parties make a decision if they are going to invest potentially thousands of hours into porting across their current plugins, then building a site based on them makes no sense (unless SE choose one of the options I mentioned above). Even if they do decide to port, I can't image the result would have the same feature set (allowing for an easy transition from SEPHP to SEUnite), as you would naturally want to leverage the new platform, it stands to reason the porting process would fundamentally change the plugins design and features.

    The other side of the holding pattern is to wait until SE and others develop new plugins on the new platform - and thats going to take quite a long time - too long for most people starting a new project that need more than the basic features and plugins that will be available early on...

    Just my 2c. I think the easiest option is for SE to commit to a longer lifespan for SEPHP - but I get why they wouldn't... It's just security patches from here on out - why develop on two platforms? Thats just a waste of resources...

    TJ

    • 211 posts
    February 22, 2019 4:52 PM EST

    Thanks Tj for the outlook,.

    We feel thankful that we avoided the bullet and did not go live (we were about to announce and market the site - which would have been crazy) during this announcement - so that is a good thing that we dodged that bullet.

     

    "A purgatory of sorts."

     that cracked me up LOLL cause thats accurate and how we feel too.

     

    "Until the 3rd parties make a decision if they are going to invest potentially thousands of hours into porting across their current plugins, then building a site based on them makes no sense (unless SE choose one of the options I mentioned above). Even if they do decide to port, I can't image the result would have the same feature set (allowing for an easy transition from SEPHP to SEUnite), as you would naturally want to leverage the new platform, it stands to reason the porting process would fundamentally change the plugins design and features."

    - you nailed it. Our whole business plan (from 2 years) based on plugin features, packages and hosting is now extinct and we will need to make a whole new plan based on costs / features and what the 3dp porting features & expenses brings to the table.

     

    Our goal/plan was to build a business platform on se & 3dp plugins, for that you need a consistent foreseeable cost / expenses to price from vendors on a timeline.

    To be operational  as a business that is imperative.

     

    The reason we are airing our issues, is so we can discuss and all have a big picture overview and learn how to proceed for the future.

    Thanks again for your input :)

    Cheers~

     

     


    This post was edited by playmusician at February 22, 2019 5:37 PM EST
    • 356 posts
    February 22, 2019 5:36 PM EST

    I feel like I am either missing something or reading a different notice about the future of SE.

    There is nothing that I see that has me anything less than excited about the future of where Unite will take us. For background @playmusician I have a very large subscription based community and moved it, with some ease, to SE from PF in early 2018. There is no reason for me to worry about our business or migrating to Unite, when it makes sense as long as it is done right. Heck, I have done the same type of move 5 times now!

    Instead of bemoaning new tech, which will alway be the case, I suggest looking at the opportunity and getting launched. Then start planning for the next phase after that.... Your SEPHP site won't turn into a pumpkin at midnight after all so you have all the time you need.


    This post was edited by ITLJames at February 22, 2019 5:37 PM EST
    • Moderator
    • 3582 posts
    February 22, 2019 5:46 PM EST
    Elshara Silverheart said:

    My takeaway from this official announcement is:

    1. Love the upcoming apps idea. This has been very much needed for awhile and should satisfy newcomers and returning users alike once it's been built.

    2. I think the more in your face the change is to reluctant customers, no matter how hard you try to bring them in, they will refuse all the more. So keep in mind visualization can cure more than the change it took to get there. the bottom line for the majority of customers is the results from a live perspective.

    3. To me, unite isn't ready for prime time yet, so I think it should be a beta program for awhile still. It's got a huge promising potential. My only concern is with the pricing model you mentioned. Continuous payments for working apps helps developers, but not those who spend hundreds of dollars on live huge sites without having to force members to pay for something that's been free for years to keep up with it all. When you mention special credits for PHP customers, what does that mean?

    We are toying with the idea of doing a hybrid of Unite here on the forum just so everyone can see but our devs are tied up in getting stable cloud ready for release. Maybe after that we can as the main site is so fast where it's powered by Unite. I can only imagine how fast it'll make this forum which isn't slow right now anyway.

    As for #3, since the apps are around $0-4 that's very low cost for something that is upgraded automagically, and updated for features. IMO. However, like we said those are optional. People can choose not to get any of the SE apps, just get third party apps, make their own apps or not use any apps at all. Lots of options. 

    • 211 posts
    February 22, 2019 5:46 PM EST

    ITL, you are missing something.

    Not at all - regarding new technology, we are in.

     

    "Your SEPHP site won't turn into a pumpkin at midnight after all so you have all the time you need..."

    Why would we want to throw resources at something that is going to be phased out (would you go with windows 8 when you know windows 10 is around the corner)

     

    regarding migration -we do want to do that  but as a business , we need to see those consistent costs within a timeline.

    We were planning to be a hosting artist platform , thats why we got aws. 

    We do not intend to go the cloud way. It would be better for us at this stage to wait - account the hosting costs / expenses/ features & app porting costs-  and then price for subscribers.

    Money is limited and spent - so even migration costs need to be accounted for. Its not limitless.

    Its not bemoaning, its trying to get the answers so we dont have the same situation down the line.

    We wouldnt go live with the current sephp platform - just to migrate. Wed be better off - getting the costs and starting from scratch.

    Right now Unite is a saas/ cloud solution- we are invested in a hosting solution (thats what our model is based on).

    Hope that clears up the confusion.

     

     

     

     


    This post was edited by playmusician at February 22, 2019 5:58 PM EST
    • Moderator
    • 3582 posts
    February 22, 2019 5:48 PM EST
    TJ said:

    I feel your pain @playmusician, I'm in a similar boat where I have invested thousands of dollars in the platform and 3rd party plugins, but unlike you, I haven't had the time just yet to fully configure and integrate everything (so at least I haven't lost time in addition to the financial investment).

    Although I think it's great that SE are moving forward with a modern architecture and are investing in the future (which I applaud them, for), announcing a relatively short EOL window (given the investment many have in their sites) is the most painful part of this announcement IMHO.

    As I mentioned in the original announcement thread, I think the solution is one of the following:

    1. Extend that EOL/End of Support date further out, which should provide more of a runway for migration to the new platform (when 3rd parties hopefully rewrite their plugins).
    2. Open source SEPHP at the EOL date (my least favorite option if it means no one will pick up the mantle and maintain/extend it).
    3. Pass/sell SEPHP to an entity or entities that will continue its support and development (one of the large 3rd party devs make sense to me given their own investment their plugins represent - as long as there is contractual language that keeps the API and ecosystem open to other developers - perhaps a joint effort between multiple 3rd party devs?)

    I would image the reason we haven't heard anything from the 3rd party devs is this is likely new to them also, so perhaps when the dust settles and SE share info and code with them, we'll get an idea of their thoughts/plans.

    As for my plans, I guess I'm now forced into a holding pattern - which I'm not happy about. A purgatory of sorts.

    Until the 3rd parties make a decision if they are going to invest potentially thousands of hours into porting across their current plugins, then building a site based on them makes no sense (unless SE choose one of the options I mentioned above). Even if they do decide to port, I can't image the result would have the same feature set (allowing for an easy transition from SEPHP to SEUnite), as you would naturally want to leverage the new platform, it stands to reason the porting process would fundamentally change the plugins design and features.

    The other side of the holding pattern is to wait until SE and others develop new plugins on the new platform - and thats going to take quite a long time - too long for most people starting a new project that need more than the basic features and plugins that will be available early on...

    Just my 2c. I think the easiest option is for SE to commit to a longer lifespan for SEPHP - but I get why they wouldn't... It's just security patches from here on out - why develop on two platforms? Thats just a waste of resources...

    TJ

    I'll pass your feedback along to the team and see about option 1. Thanks for your input.

    • Moderator
    • 3582 posts
    February 22, 2019 5:51 PM EST
    ITLJames said:

    I feel like I am either missing something or reading a different notice about the future of SE.

    There is nothing that I see that has me anything less than excited about the future of where Unite will take us. For background @playmusician I have a very large subscription based community and moved it, with some ease, to SE from PF in early 2018. There is no reason for me to worry about our business or migrating to Unite, when it makes sense as long as it is done right. Heck, I have done the same type of move 5 times now!

    Instead of bemoaning new tech, which will alway be the case, I suggest looking at the opportunity and getting launched. Then start planning for the next phase after that.... Your SEPHP site won't turn into a pumpkin at midnight after all so you have all the time you need.

    Thank you @ITLJames. As I've been on your site to assist in things before, I can attest that you have a very active and very successful site. I won't say the income level that you told me but it's great to see someone so successful for so many years too. I believe we met back in v1 of "that other script" was it? Maybe v2. Long time ago anyway. 

    I hope to see your site on Unite and see what you do with it. I'm thinking hybrid first just to get that speed and other things rolling and then full unite? 

    • 356 posts
    February 22, 2019 6:05 PM EST

    I will move to Unite once self hosted is an option - I will see what the landscape looks like before saying full or hybrid. And it was v1.5 ;)

    @Playmusician - in my spare time I mentor business owners and speak at entrepreneurial types of events. The one thing I see the most is people not moving forward fast enough and always being in development awaiting some mythical perfect timing or version to be ready.

    It never will be perfect and there will always be a better version. The most important thing to do is get to work building the airplane (community) and continue building the airplane mid flight as you go or you will never get off the ground

    • 211 posts
    February 22, 2019 6:13 PM EST

    once the self -hosted option gets clear we would like to move to that too, thanks ITL:)

    Thanks for the feedback, I understand and appreciate the input,

    I have a successful travel agency business in new york for the last 25 years, which I built from scratch. We do corporate travel with some of the largest NGOs .

    Started as retail and moved to corporate.

     

    This foray into an online business - Id like to start with a sure footing and is different.

    Most of the online businesses I see that have failed - because of tech costs and uncertainty.

    Better to be safe than sorry and plan more carefully as costs can gallop away.

     

    I appreciate and look forward to your input , and take your feedback as good advice.

    Thanks :))

     


    This post was edited by playmusician at February 22, 2019 6:16 PM EST
  • February 22, 2019 7:55 PM EST
    Donna said:
    Elshara Silverheart said:

    My takeaway from this official announcement is:

    1. Love the upcoming apps idea. This has been very much needed for awhile and should satisfy newcomers and returning users alike once it's been built.

    2. I think the more in your face the change is to reluctant customers, no matter how hard you try to bring them in, they will refuse all the more. So keep in mind visualization can cure more than the change it took to get there. the bottom line for the majority of customers is the results from a live perspective.

    3. To me, unite isn't ready for prime time yet, so I think it should be a beta program for awhile still. It's got a huge promising potential. My only concern is with the pricing model you mentioned. Continuous payments for working apps helps developers, but not those who spend hundreds of dollars on live huge sites without having to force members to pay for something that's been free for years to keep up with it all. When you mention special credits for PHP customers, what does that mean?

    We are toying with the idea of doing a hybrid of Unite here on the forum just so everyone can see but our devs are tied up in getting stable cloud ready for release. Maybe after that we can as the main site is so fast where it's powered by Unite. I can only imagine how fast it'll make this forum which isn't slow right now anyway.

    As for #3, since the apps are around $0-4 that's very low cost for something that is upgraded automagically, and updated for features. IMO. However, like we said those are optional. People can choose not to get any of the SE apps, just get third party apps, make their own apps or not use any apps at all. Lots of options. 

     

    I think that SE PHP does well as a strictly forum based network. I think at this stage the only benefit you'd gain from moving to Unite full time for this network, is when you could merge the archive forum with this one to create a super site with all the existing clients of social engine on board to date. Importing two systems cloud and php under one roof. This would also boost traffic a lot due to the php info that is older and still very valuable for other people using PHP.

    Directly giving up core php development at this stage, when there's still 2 years left to go, seems a bit premature. the majority of development should be on Unite, and in my honest opinion, getting a php importer out before a cloud importer seems more logical to me. Having said that, php makes the most sense to still work on to keep people happy and provide updated API changes at least to Facebook and Twitter, which by default, currently ship with an inaccessible format in terms of sign up, sign in.

    In terms of a hybrid site, I vote against this for now until there's a full importer in place to merge the two social engine community sites under one roof on unite.

    Regarding option 3, requiring a constant connection to offload app content remotely online may not work out well for sites who use social engine as an intranet within a private organization.

    • 177 posts
    February 22, 2019 8:33 PM EST
    I thought I knew where this was going but now I’m totally confused.

    I don’t have a business on se and use it as a playground for myself and some friends for gaming so I don’t have the pains that some have here.

    I need clarity.

    Self hosted looks 2 years off. Clue was in the announcement that php wouldn’t be eol until unite was self hosting ready. When we’re told credits what does this mean ? What are credits? Does my licence mean I will get unite with the same plugins that I have now with php at no extra cost or monthly cost ? Or does it mean I only get core unite and have to either buy monthly unite apps or 3pd apps ?

    Self hosting is the only option for myself also.

    As for this forum, it’s basic and very basic. Would be nice to see more features within it and some client only sections for support with errors that we can assist and tutorials to share with each other.

    3pd up your game. I’ve made several posts about locking support and sub par plugins and others have too.

    I’m excited about unite being based on nodejs and I hope we get some new fresh developers offering some actual useful plugins and not just “ advanced” versions of what we already have.

    I know of one 3pd who has emailed me several times now trying to get me to use their own networking site, not sure if it’s more corporate based as I briefly looked but this shows to me that developing for SE isn’t a priority as they have their own thing going on now.



    • 211 posts
    February 22, 2019 8:39 PM EST

    "..As for this forum, it’s basic and very basic. Would be nice to see more features within it and some client only sections for support with errors that we can assist and tutorials to share with each other. "

    I totally second that !

    We would love to share and help others with whatever little we know can be useful.

    and also get valuable info from seasoned community leaders..

     

    Thanks PPK

     

     

    • 211 posts
    February 22, 2019 8:44 PM EST

    "..I know of one 3pd who has emailed me several times now trying to get me to use their own networking site, not sure if it’s more corporate based as I briefly looked but this shows to me that developing for SE isn’t a priority as they have their own thing going on now. " 

    >>that would be so unethical , if a 3dp does that

    Cause then what faith can we have that the 3dp does not take our proprietary business ideas and develop it for himself.

    It like a mall owner having the best store in the mall which out shadows everybody.

    • 177 posts
    February 22, 2019 8:49 PM EST
    Just had to scan the email again. Looks like it’s more of a messaging based service as opposed to a full on script like SE, so my apologies for being slightly misleading on that.

    Think comet chat. It’s similar to that.
    • 211 posts
    February 22, 2019 8:51 PM EST

    ok , ppk  thanks for the clarification:)


    This post was edited by playmusician at February 22, 2019 8:52 PM EST
    • Moderator
    • 3582 posts
    February 23, 2019 5:17 AM EST
    Elshara Silverheart said:

     

    In terms of a hybrid site, I vote against this for now until there's a full importer in place to merge the two social engine community sites under one roof on unite.

    It's an idea we are kicking around just to show it works. Once Unite dl version is ready, this forum would be migrated to Unite as I mapped out a kick butt forum. :)

    Regarding option 3, requiring a constant connection to offload app content remotely online may not work out well for sites who use social engine as an intranet within a private organization.

    That would be the enterprise solution as the ones doing that are businesses. We will have a way for them to do that.

    • Moderator
    • 3582 posts
    February 23, 2019 5:18 AM EST
    playmusician said:

    "..As for this forum, it’s basic and very basic. Would be nice to see more features within it and some client only sections for support with errors that we can assist and tutorials to share with each other. "

    I totally second that !

    We would love to share and help others with whatever little we know can be useful.

    and also get valuable info from seasoned community leaders..

    Thanks PPK

    The forum app I mapped is exciting really. I can't wait to use it here and at my ScriptTechs. Using Vanilla Forum there atm.  

     

    • Moderator
    • 3582 posts
    February 23, 2019 5:31 AM EST
    PeppaPigKilla said:
    I thought I knew where this was going but now I’m totally confused. I don’t have a business on se and use it as a playground for myself and some friends for gaming so I don’t have the pains that some have here. I need clarity. Self hosted looks 2 years off. Clue was in the announcement that php wouldn’t be eol until unite was self hosting ready.

    I'm not clear on what you mean it took 2 years off. Unite self hosted will be ready well before SE PHP is EOL. 

    When we’re told credits what does this mean ? What are credits? Does my licence mean I will get unite with the same plugins that I have now with php at no extra cost or monthly cost ? Or does it mean I only get core unite and have to either buy monthly unite apps or 3pd apps ? Self hosting is the only option for myself also.

    I'm not sure how to explain credits. It's an amount put in an account to be used towards Unite apps. All scripts I know of charge a fee for an upgrade btw. I have had to pay for upgrades to just about every software I use. Adobe changed to SaaS not too long after I had purchased their very expensive stuffs. 

    As for this forum, it’s basic and very basic. Would be nice to see more features within it and some client only sections for support with errors that we can assist and tutorials to share with each other.

    Agreed. I mapped out a great forum using years of experience managing large forums, having my own forum, seeing feedback from clients, etc. 

    3pd up your game. I’ve made several posts about locking support and sub par plugins and others have too. I’m excited about unite being based on nodejs and I hope we get some new fresh developers offering some actual useful plugins and not just “ advanced” versions of what we already have. 

    Unite is about quality control too. We tired of the issues as well. You've no idea how many tickets we get that aren't SE issues but instead caused by plugins or customizations. Or how many complaints, etc. We wanted some way to have better quality control. There are checks in this. Circleci is one thing being used. We also use ESLint. I don't know if Circle will be used in 3rd party apps but it's a nice checking tool. We'll have guidelines once we are at that point. BTW, this isn't inherent to SE. I've seen these same issues in other scripts.

    I think the new system will be much easier for experts to product high quality products with less effort. Using an API, they won't have to mess with core. Messing with core always provides a way for gremlins to enter a system and wreak havoc. With the new app system, as Ray said, things are self contained. If there's an issue with that one thing, it's not going to break an entire site. You'll know right away it's "this" or "that" and not "OMG my site is white screen with a random error code, wth happened???" 

     

     

    • 177 posts
    February 23, 2019 8:24 AM EST
    I’ve just read this bit. Not sure how I missed it off the email.

    If I Self-Host will I have to Pay any Monthly Fees?
    Our goal is to make SocialEngine Unite affordable for everyone while balancing our company’s need for a more up to date business model. In order to provide continual updates and features, we will charge low monthly fees for any SocialEngine apps that you choose to use. Our current app fees range from $0-$4 monthly.

    I understand the need to have a more consistent income and “renting” apps seems to be the norm now for a lot of places but I don’t think monthly is right.

    So if I was to add the apps currently listed by unite they would total $31 a month. So over a 12 month period is $372 which for a yearly thing is rather insane.

    The above doesn’t include core as selfhosting I would assume there is no monthly fee for core for existing licence holders. I also assume that credits would be the currency for legacy licence holders to exchange for these apps and they will have a limited time for which the credits would cover on the subscription of these apps.

    I’d rather have an annual or bi annual fee.

    Introducing this subscription base service for self hosted means that the support has to be premier.

    Please please please don’t bring vanilla forums here. ( don’t think you are but please don’t invade it’s an option ) that said will it be in-house built forums or a 3rd party provider like ips xenforo etc